Armor skills cap and PvE skills - Guild Wars Forums

Shadowlance. · Jan 13, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

On the "Armor (rating)" page over at guildwars.wikia.com someone made a comment that they had found certain skills such as "I Am Unstoppable" appeared to bypass the normal +25 armor cap from stacked skills and effects. I was curious if anyone could prove or disprove that statement? Does "I Am Unstoppable" (or any PvE skill) bypass the armor buff cap?

Drachnyen · Jan 13, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I'm just going to give you anecdotal evidence. Doing UWSC the charged blackness hit less hard with feigned neutrality up and IAU than if I just have Feigned up.

Brawn Over Brains · Jan 13, 2009, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Just a quick kind of off-topic question..
What IS the armour buff cap?

*Darcy* · Jan 13, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Here is the wiki page that shows the caps for all stacking effects.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

Although that does not affect single skill buffs on armor:

"Armor bonuses from multiple skills will not stack with each other to provide an armor bonus in excess of +25, however the armor bonus from a single skill can exceed +25, and armor bonuses from skills will stack with armor bonuses from other sources."

Eragon Zarroc · Jan 13, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

what darcy said. combined armor adding skills can add up to +25 armor. any single skill that adds more than +25 armor will be considered the primary armor buff and other armor adding buffs will not be counted. so the only way to get more than +25 armor from skills is to use a single one that adds more than +25 armor. this armor addition limitation of 25 is only applied to skills. there is no similar cap to armor addition from insignias, runes, and shields. an excellent example of a single skill that gives more than 25 armor is "Save Yourselves" adds +100 armor

Shadowlance. · Jan 13, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Thanks folks, however I think you are answering Brawn Over Brains question and not my original post question.

I understand how the armor buff cap works, however what I was asking was whether anyone could prove or disprove the comment someone made over on guildwars.wikia.com that certain PvE skills like "I Am Unstoppable" bypassed this normal +25 cap rule, and would thus stack past +25.

Lord Of Blame · Jan 13, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

We know the rules of the +25 armor cap from stacking, that is not what he is asking. He is asking if there is a possible bug or glitch with IAU that bypasses the cap.

Drachnyen seems to have the best evidence so far. I will be trying this myself to see if I notice any difference.

Icy The Mage · Jan 14, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Did some testing, I think shouts are not affected by the armor buff rule..

The Meth · Jan 14, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38

I highly doubt its all shouts, are you sure? The whole reason the armor cap was put into place was because teams would run stuff like ["Watch Yourself!"] + ["Stand Your Ground!"] which instantly gave every caster in earshot warrior level armor.

Shadowlance. · Jan 15, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

What would you all recommend as a good place to test this? Obviously some place where you can subject yourself to repeatable expected damage amounts. I'd probably bring Ebon Battle Standard of Courage and I Am Unstoppable, and then see how damage affects me while standing in the ward both with IAU on and IAU off.

I'm not sure where a good place to test it would be though. We've got anecdotal evidence, but I'd love to be able to prove it or disprove it conclusively. (If that's even possible.)

Shadowlance. · Jan 23, 2009, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Anyone have additional thoughts on this? I'd still like to see if we can prove or disprove this either way.

Quaker · Jan 23, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Well, here's an additional thought for you.....

The info given on the wikis is not a bunch of random unsupported "maybes". The people who posted the armor cap info, did so after doing extensive testing. So, the info on there is most likely correct (and both wikis agree with each other, btw).

If you really want to confirm it for yourself, I can think of a way for you to do it. You can equip yourself with a few armor boosting skills and go to some low level area and let some enemies attack you. Do this first without using any skills and note how much damage the foes do. Then use some configuration of equipment and/or skills to give yourself exactly +25 armor and again note how much damage the mobs do. (Btw, this will require, for consistancy, that you repeatedly rezone to engage the same mobs over and over). Then you can repeat the process using combinations of skills that would give more than +25 armor and see if the damage from the mobs goes down below the +25 level you previously set.
You can see that, due to variances in the damage done with each individual attack, that you would have to do many, many repetitions of the tests to get reliable results.
(You could also do the tests using 1v1 PvP type settings too.)

Have fun!

Savio · Jan 23, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Go to the Isle of the Nameless and activate the obelisk flag stand. The obelisk will inflict a consistent amount of damage so the armor effects are easy to see.

Also, equipment isn't counted towards the armor stacking limit.

Shadowlance. · Jan 23, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

I did some testing in Old Ascalon letting some low-level enemies beat on me. I compared damage numbers over time under these scenarios:

1. No +armor skills used
2. Ebon Battle Standard of Courage
3. Ebon Battle Standard of Courage and "I Am Unstoppable!"

If the +25 armor cap works as it should, average damage between #2 and #3 should be about the same.

If PvE skills were glitched though and bypassed the +25 rule, then #3 should show lower damage numbers as compared to #2.

In my testing, I saw no appreciable difference between #2 and #3. Therefore I'd conclude that the PvE skills are not glitched. I've heard quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to the contrary though, so possibly my testing is flawed.

Shadowlance. · Jan 23, 2009, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

activate the obelisk flag stand

Thanks for that tip. I hadn't used that flag stand before. That worked well as a test. I used the flag stand and activated Elemental Resistance and observed the damage packets. Then I actived "I Am Unstoppable!" and observed that damage was reduced further. Then I reset it and tried again with Elemental Resistance and Ebon Battle Standard of Courage and observed that activating EBSoC made no difference.

Based on that observation, I would come to the conclusion that "I Am Unstoppable!" does bypass the normal +25 armor buff cap rule. (But apparently not all PvE skills do, since EBSoC did not.)

Jan 13, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28	#1
Shadowlance. Academy Page Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: The Prophecy Of Life Profession: R/P	Armor skills cap and PvE skills On the "Armor (rating)" page over at guildwars.wikia.com someone made a comment that they had found certain skills such as "I Am Unstoppable" appeared to bypass the normal +25 armor cap from stacked skills and effects. I was curious if anyone could prove or disprove that statement? Does "I Am Unstoppable" (or any PvE skill) bypass the armor buff cap?

Jan 13, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56	#4
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	Here is the wiki page that shows the caps for all stacking effects. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Effect_stacking Although that does not affect single skill buffs on armor: "Armor bonuses from multiple skills will not stack with each other to provide an armor bonus in excess of +25, however the armor bonus from a single skill can exceed +25, and armor bonuses from skills will stack with armor bonuses from other sources." __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also) Last edited by Darcy; Jan 13, 2009 at 05:59 PM // 17:59..

Jan 23, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08	#13
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	Go to the Isle of the Nameless and activate the obelisk flag stand. The obelisk will inflict a consistent amount of damage so the armor effects are easy to see. Also, equipment isn't counted towards the armor stacking limit. __________________ People are stupid.

Jan 13, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09	#2
Drachnyen Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jul 2008 Guild: Shadow Reckoners[SR] Profession: D/Mo	I'm just going to give you anecdotal evidence. Doing UWSC the charged blackness hit less hard with feigned neutrality up and IAU than if I just have Feigned up.

Jan 13, 2009, 05:40 PM // 17:40	#3
Brawn Over Brains Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: England Guild: X Devils Rejects X Profession: W/Mo	Just a quick kind of off-topic question.. What IS the armour buff cap?

Jan 13, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26	#5
Eragon Zarroc Atra estern?? ono thelduin Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madness Incarnate Guild: [Duo] Profession: W/P	what darcy said. combined armor adding skills can add up to +25 armor. any single skill that adds more than +25 armor will be considered the primary armor buff and other armor adding buffs will not be counted. so the only way to get more than +25 armor from skills is to use a single one that adds more than +25 armor. this armor addition limitation of 25 is only applied to skills. there is no similar cap to armor addition from insignias, runes, and shields. an excellent example of a single skill that gives more than 25 armor is "Save Yourselves" adds +100 armor

Jan 13, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51	#6
Shadowlance. Academy Page Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: The Prophecy Of Life Profession: R/P	Thanks folks, however I think you are answering Brawn Over Brains question and not my original post question. I understand how the armor buff cap works, however what I was asking was whether anyone could prove or disprove the comment someone made over on guildwars.wikia.com that certain PvE skills like "I Am Unstoppable" bypassed this normal +25 cap rule, and would thus stack past +25.

Jan 13, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59	#7
Lord Of Blame Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: USA Guild: Marked Souls [MkS] Profession: E/N	We know the rules of the +25 armor cap from stacking, that is not what he is asking. He is asking if there is a possible bug or glitch with IAU that bypasses the cap. Drachnyen seems to have the best evidence so far. I will be trying this myself to see if I notice any difference.

Jan 14, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31	#8
Icy The Mage Forge Runner Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canada Profession: E/	Did some testing, I think shouts are not affected by the armor buff rule..

Jan 14, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38	#9
The Meth Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Profession: R/	I highly doubt its all shouts, are you sure? The whole reason the armor cap was put into place was because teams would run stuff like ["Watch Yourself!"] + ["Stand Your Ground!"] which instantly gave every caster in earshot warrior level armor.

Jan 15, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30	#10
Shadowlance. Academy Page Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: The Prophecy Of Life Profession: R/P	What would you all recommend as a good place to test this? Obviously some place where you can subject yourself to repeatable expected damage amounts. I'd probably bring Ebon Battle Standard of Courage and I Am Unstoppable, and then see how damage affects me while standing in the ward both with IAU on and IAU off. I'm not sure where a good place to test it would be though. We've got anecdotal evidence, but I'd love to be able to prove it or disprove it conclusively. (If that's even possible.)

Jan 23, 2009, 01:54 PM // 13:54	#11
Shadowlance. Academy Page Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: The Prophecy Of Life Profession: R/P	Anyone have additional thoughts on this? I'd still like to see if we can prove or disprove this either way.

Jan 23, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55	#12
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	Well, here's an additional thought for you..... The info given on the wikis is not a bunch of random unsupported "maybes". The people who posted the armor cap info, did so after doing extensive testing. So, the info on there is most likely correct (and both wikis agree with each other, btw). If you really want to confirm it for yourself, I can think of a way for you to do it. You can equip yourself with a few armor boosting skills and go to some low level area and let some enemies attack you. Do this first without using any skills and note how much damage the foes do. Then use some configuration of equipment and/or skills to give yourself exactly +25 armor and again note how much damage the mobs do. (Btw, this will require, for consistancy, that you repeatedly rezone to engage the same mobs over and over). Then you can repeat the process using combinations of skills that would give more than +25 armor and see if the damage from the mobs goes down below the +25 level you previously set. You can see that, due to variances in the damage done with each individual attack, that you would have to do many, many repetitions of the tests to get reliable results. (You could also do the tests using 1v1 PvP type settings too.) Have fun!

Jan 23, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26	#14
Shadowlance. Academy Page Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: The Prophecy Of Life Profession: R/P	I did some testing in Old Ascalon letting some low-level enemies beat on me. I compared damage numbers over time under these scenarios: 1. No +armor skills used 2. Ebon Battle Standard of Courage 3. Ebon Battle Standard of Courage and "I Am Unstoppable!" If the +25 armor cap works as it should, average damage between #2 and #3 should be about the same. If PvE skills were glitched though and bypassed the +25 rule, then #3 should show lower damage numbers as compared to #2. In my testing, I saw no appreciable difference between #2 and #3. Therefore I'd conclude that the PvE skills are not glitched. I've heard quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to the contrary though, so possibly my testing is flawed.